Storytelling & Fashion Photography

[fashioninfant]

I was reading through the Diversity in Fashion Photography thread and I saw a couple of interesting points. The point @Phuel made storytelling made me wonder is that do you think storytelling is vital for a photographer’s legacy and do you believe there are photographers (old&new) who are still masters at this?

 

[fashioninfant]

fashionmodeldirectory

One of my favorite examples of this is Living Green by Steven Meisel.

 

[amby]

Oh, how I've missed these type of editorials that has distinct narration

 

[Phuel]

10 years ago, storytelling was still the standard in fashion presentation.

2022? Storytelling is not so much a lost art in fashion, it’s a rejected, discarded and reviled artform: Too much effort needed. Too much work required. Too much time devoted. And that’s not the MO of this era’s lazy creatives: Don’t blame the budget-cuts: Talent, passion and dedication transcends any budget. And the talent is just not there. Publications only care about virtual signalling, catering to, and begging for likes/followers. Followers whom in all likelihood don’t even care about fashion, let alone pay for an issue. They only demand representation/diversity/inclusivity, rinse and repeat. What care do these types have for thoughtful, careful, insightful and provocative storytelling and production? Throwing pearls before swine comes to mind. So it’s understandable why even those capable of fashion storytelling wouldn’t be bothered to work so hard, when the barest of minimal is enough to scrap by these days.

The most exciting new photographer in the tradition of moody, heady, alluring storytelling, with the skilled execution of a filmmaking steeped in rich cinematography and intoxicating texture, is Annemarieke Van Drimmelen. I get lost in her imagery over and over. And sadly, that’s something that isn’t popular these days. Her imagery isn’t for the swipe-left and instantly forgotten commoners. And it’s likely exactly for that reason, that she’s not as in-demand as the more basic ones.

Alique is slowly winning me over with her rapidly improving technical sensibility and smokey, smouldering production. But she’s a hit-or-miss, presently. She seems to waver between producing these masterful, lighting-rich shadows and fog imagery, only to throw up a basic shot that’s very SM-oriented to get the attention of the commoners. Her wavering back and forth is like an intelligent woman who dumbs herself way way way down to fit in with the cool gang just to be excepted. Carlijn Jacobs also seems that way: Capable of some really strong, technically-advanced and creatively-competent image-making— and storytelling, but then devolves to throw 10 different styles into a single story, so as not to bore the attention-deficit commoners. Pandering to the lowest of common denominator is sadly, a survival technique these day in fashion.

The new generation of Chinese photographers at Vogue China show potential. They clearly adore fashion and seem to possess the drive, ambition and vision for fashion storytelling. Most of the time, they fall short in producing a solid story from start to finish, unfortunately. But the potential is there, and given time and experience, hopefully they will only improve. Vogue Mexico’s roster of photographers are also potentially great: Very simple, clean, and understated image-making with them- and full of warmth. I adore their quiet restrain and relaxed elegance in their vision of fashion. It feel like an honest reflection of the best of Mexico.

There is hope, and talent if you take the time to look. But this era isn’t the fashion paradise of 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. More like a fashion Walmart these days.

 

[MissMagAddict]

It isn’t just the photographer’s vision. They also need the right stylist and set designer to collaborate with for storytelling. The glory days of Grace Coddington, Lori Goldstein, Karl Templer, etc., and Mary Howard’s set designs. All in the past. Not even mentioning hair and makeup. A lot of younger people now don’t know or even care who these people are. People here even. That era is over. Now, like Phuel said, everything is just so dumbed down and next, next. Just keep swiping and scrolling until you die.

 

[fashioninfant]

Hahaha @Fashion Walmart.


I totally agree @Phuel and @MissMagAddict. The current state of everything is now swipe with likes and followers. Of course, the creative industry is a business first and we all recognize that. However, the output was so fulfilling that our focus was there. The editorials told stories that encouraged the generation after to continue to push the envelope. Now I feel like there’s a huge focus on the quick consumption of art, but not the digestion. The stories are provoking for the moment and that’s where the interest stops. We see the images and move on. We save one or two images from an editorial because those are the best bits. To me, the Greats had vision and knew how to get there. They were willing to bend rules to create that perfect story. All opinions aside. Plus, the only way to truly take fashion photography to new heights is to do something new. Inspired has become rip-offs with no distinctive identity. I believe there is nothing new under the Sun, but certain narratives are being pushed more than others. Plus I feel like there is a certain cinematic perspective missing too. The bar is set at just enough for pretty individual images.

Do you think that photographers should be given a chance to work for the big brands before finding their own style?


My current favorite photographers come from the frequent contributors to Vogue China and Taiwan. Right now, I love Leslie Zhang’s work. I discovered them during the lockdown and it was a breath of fresh air. I have not heard of the photographers you’ve mentioned, but I will do my research.


With the current trajectory, what do you think will have to happen for the essence of what we know fashion photography to be to make a comeback? Or do you think this is just a case of dealing with the current mess until something better comes?

 

[Phuel]

^^^ I don’t see the brand of high standards in creativity and execution many still hold on to from 30 to 10 years ago returning as the standard, unfortunately. Some semblance of high standard will evolve from the current era’s mess. Can things devolve any worse??? After the first Black photographer for the September issue of Vogue/ the first Black plus-size model on the cover of Vogue/the first Black designer to show haute couture in Paris etc etc— now how about actually being good at what you do? Tyler Mitchell seemed to have learned about lighting/technique beyond ripping off Erykah Badu’s “On And On” video’s set pieces, so that’s a good sign (…even if that new technical and creative sensibility now blatantly rips off wholesale Mario Sorrenti's early work and Nick Knight’s signature moodiness…). The only way is up now LOL

It isn’t just the photographer’s vision. They also need the right stylist and set designer to collaborate with for storytelling. The glory days of Grace Coddington, Lori Goldstein, Karl Templer, etc., and Mary Howard’s set designs. All in the past. Not even mentioning hair and makeup. A lot of younger people now don’t know or even care who these people are. People here even. That era is over. Now, like Phuel said, everything is just so dumbed down and next, next. Just keep swiping and scrolling until you die.

You’re right: Such creative tribes of photographers/stylists/hairstylists/MUAs/ADs then. But all their talents wouldn’t be able to save any image when the likes of Rafael Pavarotti/Zoey Grossman/Karim Sadli are helming the shoot. I’d never thought I see such cheapness, even something as throwaway as poorly-applied fake eyelashes ever near a high fashion rag— and yet, there it is, on the cover of Carine’s CR… People really don’t care now for a higher standard. Those in control like Carine and Anna truly only care to appeal to the lowest of common denominators. It’s cool to bring in new personalties with the likes of Megan/Cardi B/Doja Cat etc. But reinvent them to the highest of fashion standards— don’t just shoot them in their stripper gear aesthetic. I get that there’s this fear from someone like Carine that reinventing someone like Cardi B may be seen as insensitive to who she is-- but that’s the whole point of fashion, FFS: To transcend beyond what you are now.

It’s very disheartening when you love fashion so much and see what it’s reduced to: The gorgeous, intelligent being is now a basic THOT. I don’t blame the greater ones that are still working not bothering to make the effort as they did once.

At least we still have the Zara campaigns!

 

[fashioninfant]

I agree to a certain degree. I think that the output has not been satisfying to most. However, do you think this is a more accurate portrayal of the industry? Now that everyone has “a seat at the table” I feel like we are able to see the good, bad and in between to decide how to move forward with excellence. I think if the inclusion and diversity quotas were filled earlier we could’ve moved past this rough patch faster and continue towards excellence. They are overcompensating to make everyone happy. To be clear, I think everyone deserves a chance to tell a GREAT story, but our current “stories” fall flat. Some either have the technical skills or vision, but not both. The industry thinks they are filling quotas per our request, but it’s the opposite. The stories that gain the most attention are the ones helmed by the Greats due to nostalgia probably. I want great stories from diverse people. I don’t mind seeing the quotas checked off they constantly deliver something fresh. In summary, I don’t blame the photographers 100%.

However, do you think the disconnect for most comes from the method of storytelling? Or just the lack of excellence?

 

[Phuel]

^^^ To put it bluntly, the standards have been lowered to the level of a 12yo’s understanding of creativity and production now. There is no standard of excellence anymore.

And why does everybody “deserve" a proverbial seat at the fashion table??? The industry is not city council LOL People will not speak up, be critical of this overwhelming shift and bias in representation of the industry in fear of being labeled as anti-Black/racist/bigoted etc etc but the proof is that this is the most creatively-bankrupt, technically-amateur, and most visually dumbed down era of fashion because--- representation is one of the contributing components (greed being the other). It’s not a nice observation, but let’s be honest since we’re on a fashion discussion forum, and not carefully minding our every word on a commercial feature story in fear of being cancelled. Whatever accusations of nepotism, privilege, discrimination and racism is pointed at the industry for shutting out certain people— well, the exact same form of nepotism, privilege, discrimination, racism is enabled, practiced by those accusers whom are the representation elite now and weaponizing race LOL And the majority just meekly accept it lest they be accused and labeled as anti-Black/racist/bigoted etc etc Fashion is so highly politicalized now (and so much ruthlessly, greedier than ever before) when it really has no place to be so— because again, this exclusive, elitist industry is not city council or government. It will take so much time to undo this creatively-bankrupt fcukery it witlessly rammed itself into.

 

[MissMagAddict]

Lazy & boring.

Vogue Italia under Sozzani/Meisel used to assault us every month with a story presented as freedom of thought, whether it was about politics, sexuality, violence, or whatever. Now everything is likes and shame, so there’s no more tolerance for dissent, negativity, or even the subtle nuances of provocation. We can’t upset the brand, because dollars, so they use some sort of boring motif to make the story seem cool.

I just wanted to add, that before the internet, and because of magazines like VI, you could dress a certain way and find your tribe (thanks @Phuel). You were trying to be thoughtful by separating yourself from the mainstream culture. It was like secret codes. Not anymore. Now people are shamed for being who they really are.

 

[fashioninfant]

Hahaha I can’t disagree! I’ve always had an interest in fashion, but I never read magazines growing up. I’ve been playing catch up with past and present fashion history. It is interesting to hear and see for myself the deviation between now and then. At first I thought people were exaggerating about how good the work was, but discovering old editorials and seeing what is put out now is shocking to say the least.

I’ve always wondered what makes this art good vs compared to the other, but I’m slowly learning. It’s crazy how politicized/correct everything has to be when art has always been very open to interpretation and the artist is supposed to feel liberated by their art. I guess we just ignore the BS until something better comes along. Thank you @Phuel and @MissMagAddict! I’m learning a lot.

 

[Phuel]

Lazy & boring.

Vogue Italia under Sozzani/Meisel used to assault us every month with a story presented as freedom of thought, whether it was about politics, sexuality, violence, or whatever. Now everything is likes and shame, so there’s no more tolerance for dissent, negativity, or even the subtle nuances of provocation. We can’t upset the brand, because dollars, so they use some sort of boring motif to make the story seem cool.

I just wanted to add, that before the internet, and because of magazines like VI, you could dress a certain way and find your tribe (thanks @Phuel). You were trying to be thoughtful by separating yourself from the mainstream culture. It was like secret codes. Not anymore. Now people are shamed for being who they really are.

Excellent point: The exclusive realm of high fashion was politically-incorrect, provocative, controversial, challenging, risk-taking and straightup naughty. It and its presentations were never for everybody— that’s the point. It concluded its fans took responsibility for themselves. It was such a great teacher.

(LOL Yes— my 14yo old snob self would immediately identify with similar others because we wore the same street/designer labels. There was this unspoken, discreet code between us. And we earned it not because we were rich (far be it), but because it was a sense of discovery, discipline, dedication and education to learn about these labels that weren’t easily available.)

 

[fashioninfant]

@Phuel I don’t know why I didn’t connect the dots until now, but I think I fully understand you now. I’ve heard many times from family/friends because I knew about brand xyz or didn’t want to wear certain brands over xyz I was being snobby. The pursuit for mainstream has even led to fashion history being reported incorrectly on sites like TikTok. I’ve always seen the fashion industry is an peculiar one because it is an established industry but the general public never knew too much. Once the elites discovered the general public showed a tiny bit of interest, then it was over for storytelling. I don’t know why when anything goes mainstream it automatically goes to crap. There’s way too much happening in fashion right now.

 

[blueorchid]

Another aspect of fashion photography that I think is missing these days is, honestly... technique. Previously, there was a through-line of talent working under others and learning photography as a skill. Helmut Newton working as an assistant for Yva, Hiro under Avedon, Guy Bourdin under MAN RAY(!!!), Irving Penn under Alexey Brodovitch, Arthur Elgort under Gösta Peterson, Lindbergh under Hans Lux, even Meisel's early career as a fashion illustrator, etc. I mean, even Alexi Lubomirski started out as Testino's assistant! Paolo Roversi started out as a reporter and took a while to get into fashion photography. I could be wrong, but nowadays anyone who picks up a digital camera or a smart phone is a photographer.

Honestly, I'd rather not think about it too much, but I think that same through-line of apprenticeship and craft was broken in fashion design a long time ago, too.

 

[fashioninfant]

Good point. I haven’t thought about mentorship!

 

[MissMagAddict]

From 2018, but still worth reading imo.


source | system #11 mydigitalcopy

 

[fashioninfant]

Lemme read this!

 

[MissMagAddict]

Lemme read this!

I hope so. I posted it especially for you. Lol

 

[fashioninfant]

From 2018, but still worth reading imo.


source | system #11 mydigitalcopy

Thank you for sharing! This is very interesting! When Lotta said, “I am not that interested in fashion,” everything made sense. Her focus on getting the right image before the fashion is worrying. How is fashion for fashion photography not the priority? Wouldn't it just be even considered photography? The lines are blurred and there needs to be clear definitions.

 

[Phuel]

Thanks for the System interview, @MissMagAddict!

I wonder what a fashion publication would look like with Grace as editor— and she didn’t have to concern with appeasing and selling to the masses… She’s that rare breed of fashion lineage that understands commercial work without losing that elusive, exclusive, and elitist prestige that is high fashion. She’s someone that reigns back her creativity when necessary, then unleashes it to frightening, beautiful impact when appropriate. And she never panders to trendy sensibility :cough:Carine:cough: Her, Fabien Baron and Karl Templer are that consistent beacon of high standard in this ever cheapening fashiondom.

Lotta’s story bores me. I do like her— and she’s by far one of the more talented stylists of this era, but she’s not anywhere at the level of Grace. And her comment here confirms my suspicion that her and Demna were/are just straightup trolling the fashion victimz with Balenciaga. She reminds me a bit of Melanie Ward. I adored Melanie at a time: With Helmut Lang and Juergen Teller, they were the coolest trio— The Holy Trinity to me back in the late-90s/early-2000s (... with Tom/Carine/Mario being the other Holy Trinity). Odd how some cannot— or maybe won’t evolve with the times, as Helmut didn’t. While Melanie sort of fell into obscurity after her time with Helmut was over. And then there’s Juergen in 2022…