Dior: The Borehouse

[balmain1914]

Dior s/s 2007 is my favourite, like it or not.
Keep it simple pls, John.

 

[TianSoFine]

^I actually find that "boring" 2007 dress to be more interesting than the leather dress from 2010. The 2007 dress looks more "exclusive", for lack of better word, and the design is more artistic. I also think that the design of the dress is more unique. The 2010 dress has a bolder colour, but that doesn't make the dress itself more groundbreaking, because I don't think it's something that other designers can't make.

 

[helmut.newton]

^^ I agree 100%. Spring 2007 was one of the last few collections that Galliano designed, which had a point of view and a relevancy. Besides, the simplicity of it when hand in hand with the intentions of the show; which was going back to basics. Also, it was applying some of the French savoir faire and haute couture finishes to simple pret-a-porter dresses, skirts, suits, etc.

I also agree with Spike413 on this comment. It's so excruciatingly obvious, the complete lack of perspective and modernity in John's more recent collections.

Cute and colorful as some of these new clothes may or may not be there's something kind of cheesy about them, like Barbie clothes. It's almost like an out of touch older person's take on what's youthful and fun.

Besides, the change in the Dior aesthetic has been visible ever since Stephen Robinson died in 2007. I think he was a crucial part of Galliano's vision for Dior, and his death and absence from the house has impacted greatly.

 

[Chloe Parks]

It kind of became like "oh whatever"....what happened to their cool campaigns? they're so boring...the karlie kloss one was boring and although their clothes are very french theyre look like they r for old peeple i can't believe it how theyve change

 

[agee]

I am fine with Dior the Borehouse when it comes to the Pre-Fall and Cruise collections, that is just a business reality, but I think that Galliano should bring it when it comes to haute couture (SS2010, what the *) and that RTW should fall somewhere in between. Although, I can see the corporate guys instructing JG and his team to have a few red carpet items in the couture collection, especially the January one since it is awards season.

I am fine with the notion that Galliano's eponymous line is more avant garde and creative than his work for Dior, Dior is a corporate owned legacy house which means that the creative director does not automatically have free rein. I can see it going either way, I can see for one period of time LVMH allowing JG to go all out because that in and of itself is a form of marketing, but then at other times encouraging him to mine the archives. Although, after The New Look and Junon and her sisters, there may not be a lot of there there, especially from the Dior years. While I would not rule it out, getting stuff from the YSL and Ferre years may be tricky because it may start to look too much like it is derivative of their eponymous houses.

Not to get all schmaltzy or anything, but does Galliano have the time to go trekking amongst the indigenous people in some other hemisphere, or to spend several days in museums in some secondary European capital?

BTW, how many collections does JG create / oversee each year:
Galliano Women Fall / Winter RTW
Galliano Women Spring / Summer RTW
Galliano Men Fall / Winter RTW
Galliano Men Spring / Summer RTW
Cruise?
Pre-Fall?

Dior Women Fall / Winter RTW
Dior Women Spring / Summer RTW
Dior Women Fall Haute Couture
Dior Women Spring / Summer Haute Couture
Dior Women Pre-Fall
Dior Women Cruise
Is the above correct?


* I actually liked the collection, I was just expecting more pizazz when it comes to a Dior by Galliano haute couture collection. Although it should be noted that pizazz and haute couture are not synonymous in general, but that is how I have been conditioned when it comes for Dior by Galliano haute couture.

 

[mikeijames]

Not to get all schmaltzy or anything, but does Galliano have the time to go trekking amongst the indigenous people in some other hemisphere, or to spend several days in museums in some secondary European capital?

while i agree with everything said, one must note that the bar for geniuses on galliano's level finds itself set a bit higher than that of the average breakthrough, trendsetting designer. john galliano has proved he has the ability to juggle multiple points of inspiration and digest them into several multi-faceted collections. john galliano stands among the karl lagerfelds, john paul gaultiers, marc jacobs, and others who turn out many many collections each year but still have the time to open themselves up to new points of inspiration. karl lagerfeld, of course, being the king of these with three major houses under his belt along with a publishing and photography business.

back during the heyday of dior that we discuss here, galliano still turned out multiple collections so i don't think that's what's holding him back during the more lackluster years we reference as the "borehouse". i think it's his uppers holding him back.

 

[reese06]

Hmmm, this might explain also why Dior has become what it has.

Source: http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2011/01/bernard_arnault_is_glad_he_cho.html#comment-list

"I could have asked many other talented designers to do Dior, but it would not have been the same," Arnault told Tatler Asia. "Take Marc Jacobs, he has been a fantastic success at Vuitton and he has a proximity to the Vuitton spirit, but I don't think it would have been a success with Jacobs at Dior and the other way around, if I had asked John [Galliano] to do Vuitton, it would not have worked. An essential ingredient in the success of the brand today is the real proximity of Galliano to the talent of Christian Dior." Before each collection is shown, Arnault and Galliano meet at the LVMH offices in Paris to discuss the designs. "We meet in this room," says Arnault. "I say, 'John, I think we should do something else.' What you have done is too extravagant. For Dior it's all about the details and John listens

 

[Dkammern]

and John listens
​

For the record, this is not the first time we read about Arnault being a control freak at Dior. Even his wife says it's obsessive.
This really makes me reconsider if all the complaints about Galliano could disappear by appointing someone else.

 

[Spike413]

I really don't get why Arnault plays such a role in what goes within the Dior ateliers, yet you look at all of the other collections under the LVMH umbrella and the designers seem to be doing their own thing largely free of creative constraints. It's baffling. I mean, you hire a genius, he proves his worth both creatively and commercially over the span of nearly a decade, so you start micromanaging him as a reward?

 

[TianCouture]

This is what happens when a BISINESSMAN tells a CREATIVE GENIUS what to do. Exactly what M.Dior himself was afraid of happening to him.....

 

[mikeijames]

I really don't get why Arnault plays such a role in what goes within the Dior ateliers, yet you look at all of the other collections under the LVMH umbrella and the designers seem to be doing their own thing largely free of creative constraints. It's baffling. I mean, you hire a genius, he proves his worth both creatively and commercially over the span of nearly a decade, so you start micromanaging him as a reward?

there's a different financial arrangement between arnault and dior than arnault and all of the other houses under the lvmh umbrella, no? doesn't he own dior directly where the others fall under the corporate masthead?

 

[Dkammern]

^^ a very M&A explanation, but I've always thought it's more of a paternalistic obsession Arnault has with Dior (the company was his "first affair" in the luxury industry, and one can't help thinking Arnault might, after all, have human feelings)

Anyway, I came to revive this thread for other OBVIOUS reasons... what do you all think is going to happen? borehouse-no-more, or borehouse-even-more?

 

[agee]

I think that people are being naive if they think Galliano's successor at Dior is going to bring back the excitement from Galliano's early years with the house, perhaps in the short-term there will be excitement because presumably the new designer will bring a fresh aesthetic but after that s/he is going to settle in and design the kinds of collections (relateable and often tied to the archives) that are endemic to being part of a legacy house.

 

[FASHIONLOVA]

Dior will never go where Galliano took. his genius will never be matched. someone else will come and do their best and people might like it, but all the thought and complexity of Galliano collections will be gone

 

[AgrenateD]

people are being naive if they think Galliano's successor at Dior is going to bring back the excitement from Galliano's early years with the house

i so agree with this. we've all seen how Galliano evolved from being a dastard couture wildchild to being repressed into spewing tame archaic sellable-ware for the house. granted it would be initially exciting since the brand is in dire need of some reinvention but since it looks like Arnault's pressing for revenues to be accessories driven, ultimately more attention will be given into powerhouse accessories and not into the womenswear aspect so candidates like Lacroix and Theyskens will sound good, but just that.

Rodarte inspite of being demicouture lacks the maturity plus i don't think the Mulleavy sisters fit into the Dior aesthetic, though it would be interesting to see what they can make of it. and Tisci is too stable at Givenchy and uprooting him will only mean more chaos. ahh, what a mess. i only hope the successor will be able to revitalize the brand without using the same notes Galliano had to make do in the end.

 

[mikeijames]

there exists no shortage in talented on-fire young talent: while dior must choose carefully, it should choose someone like a youngish who has to power to transform the house in the way the other designers of european legacy houses have. roland mouret, olivier theyskens, thakoon, alexis mabille, and others should rise to the top.

 

[YoninahAliza]

Question: So basically all of you who are calling Galliano a genius would like to see him still work a Dior? Even after all those horrible things which he said? To be honest, I would rather see the house do poorly but have a designer of good integrity then to have someone like Mr. Galliano work for them. Dior's good name shouldn't be slandered because of one schmucks comments, especially since they fired him.

 

[agee]

Question: So basically all of you who are calling Galliano a genius would like to see him still work a Dior?

I don't see that correlation being made nor do I see that as the consensus sentiment being expressed in this thread.

 

[Spike413]

To be completely honest I consider Galliano the man and Galliano the designer two different issues. A bunch of offensive remarks spoken by a man who is in the midst of what appears to be an addiction doesn't negate the fact that the man was and likely still is a creative genius.

The whole situation is just a mess. While I don't necessarily disagree with LVMH's decision I also don't necessarily agree with the seeming contempt that people suddenly have for Galliano. Yes, he said some truly ugly things, but I don't think that automatically makes him a horrible human being in every way. More than anything I feel bad for the guy, and I'm honestly a little worried to see where he'll end up.

As for Dior, count me as one of those who's skeptical about where it will go from here. If one creator wasn't allowed to express himself without constraints what makes anyone think that another creator will have total freedom?

 

[TianCouture]

To be completely honest I consider Galliano the man and Galliano the designer two different issues. A bunch of offensive remarks spoken by a man who is in the midst of what appears to be an addiction doesn't negate the fact that the man was and likely still is a creative genius.

The whole situation is just a mess. While I don't necessarily disagree with LVMH's decision I also don't necessarily agree with the seeming contempt that people suddenly have for Galliano. Yes, he said some truly ugly things, but I don't think that automatically makes him a horrible human being in every way. More than anything I feel bad for the guy, and I'm honestly a little worried to see where he'll end up.

As for Dior, count me as one of those who's skeptical about where it will go from here. If one creator wasn't allowed to express himself without constraints what makes anyone think that another creator will have total freedom?

It's like everything I have been thinking and feeling you expressed just absolutely perfectly. The last five days I have been seeing the face of two very different men: one who inspired me to go into this damn industry (an industry in which they clearly do not care about the well being of a mastermind nor the human race-they get what they need and the minute you slip, even a little, its the end...) and on the other a man that is so desperate, and sickly looking (I reckon he is, it's a concept I've had for quite a while, he has looked just awful the last few years, and I mean seriously sick...), that I just have so much sympathy for him. Yes, what he did was beyond wrong, but we all make mistakes and I can't help but to feel that there is indeed a piece to this puzzle that is missing. And I honestly don't think we will ever know what it is...


That being said, I love the idea of Tisci @ Dior, but it will not happen, he is really just starting to pull the brand in a really great direction; his mark has just begun, and people like it a lot... I do not see--in any way, shape, or form-- an older designer such as JPG or Lacroix taking on the House of Dior--that would have been like Galliano stepping up to take over for McQueen--they are too established and, to be frank, old (while their vision might not be) to do anything John didn't do with the house (It's like going backwards, almost). Dior really needs some young blood and the Mulleavy sisters are definitely not the right choice either--two very demographics and ideals of what a women should and can wear... Elbaz leaving seems soooo beyond foolish, he has a cult following @ Lanvin. I could see Alexis Mabille or even Erdem stepping up to the plate, to fresh designers with a serious European "flair" (oh, how cliche!) and a strong POV. But even at all that, I feel so lost right now. It's like I want to write John a love letter and have him move in with me for a year and nurse him back to health and restore him. In this industry you are loyal to certain designers, and for me that will always be Monsieur Dior and Galliano--a bout portant. One huge lesson I have learned is that of forgiveness and the immense power it can have on the human race. More hate only spews more hate, as is the case with Galliano, a man who clearly needs more help than meets the eye...