Hedi Slimane's women's wear?

[Fade to Black]

I am looking forward to this!! Is Hedi really at feud with Raf? For all we know they are probably good friend behind close door.

I was just at the bookstore this morning reading the new Details...they interviewed Raf Simons right before he debuted his Jil Sander Homme show...he mentions that at the beginning of this decade, shortly after he introduced the skinny suiting look in his collections, he had never even met Hedi Slimane yet Hedi came out with a similar streamlined aesthetic and suddenly became fashion's golden boy, and Raf was quite displeased with this...because Hedi is with the huge fashion conglomerate with the money, backing and press at his disposal, while Raf is being supported by family and friends to fuel his ongoing work, so even though he sparked the revolution he could not take credit for it as his name wasn't recognized enough back then...so he held some animosity towards Hedi for a while and the two ignored each other. They eventually came to a resolution, I still don't think the two are friends though...Raf took some subliminal shots at Hedi on men.style.com a while back.

 

[galliano-homme]

hedi slimane is the most overated designer ever FACT! i actually feel sorry for the people who follow his every move its a joke. there is no originality at all your all sad!

 

[Johnny]

hedi slimane is the most overated designer ever FACT! i actually feel sorry for the people who follow his every move its a joke. there is no originality at all your all sad!

Please verify that FACT.

 

[tricotineacetat]

hedi slimane is the most overated designer ever FACT! i actually feel sorry for the people who follow his every move its a joke. there is no originality at all your all sad!

Even if I disagree with someone´s personal taste, none of this I would describe as a matter of fact cause preferences are highly, and almost entirely based on personal preferences, not facts.

Unfortunately fashion is the sort of industry where "fame" is almost inevitably build on hype - or at least, hype helps build up a designer´s fame. Somebody knows someone who introduced designer X to press person Y... this is exactly how Hedi got into the fortunate position to work at Saint Laurent, met with Karl Lagerfeld, build up Dior Homme´s reputation. I don´t think you can blame him for having had enough luck during his early career to have met people like Steven Gan, Jean Jacques Picard, Karl Lagerfeld and Yves Saint Laurent. And even then, there had always been the clothes, and they were always profound and of substance.

Whoever else is able to deliver a strong - and well executed - point of view as Hedi´s is getting my full respect and support, it doesn´t have anything to do with the label tag that is inside the clothes.

 

[The Leviathan]

i agree. fashion is all based on opinion. even if i don't particularly like something i would never say that the designer is talentless or that his fans are mindless followers. no one is forcing you to like hedi. what good does it do to come on the internet and insult the people who happen to like it. so much negativity.

 

[tricotineacetat]

The only thing that really catches my interest in such discussions is the thesis and anti-thesis thing... It´s indeed quite a controversy with Raf Simons and Hedi Slimane sharing similar aesthetics and I get where you guys are coming from, saying that Hedi´s take is not really far away from what Raf probably did some years before him.

I am personally not behind Hedi 100%, I am just trying to point out that even though they have some siginficant similarities, there are still some things that seperate the two and that make each of them still unique in terms of their attitude, be it the fabrics, the construction or execution of the clothes. I happen to approve both their works, so I hope it is clear that I am indeed not a mindless follower. Thank you.

 

[Morningstar]

One must admit if the two were just the same why wouldn't people just buy Raf Simons instead of Dior Homme since it's probably priced lower? However, they're not the same hence a reason for the two brands to exist.

 

[AlexN]

^Yep.

And Raf may be "ahead" of Hedi, but I don't give a sh*t when I find most of Raf's clothes to be ugly as sin. You'd have to pay me to wear his Jil Sander collection. That said, you'd also have to pay me to wear DH S/S 06. But overall, there's very little Raf I'd wear compared with the loads of DH I'd wear.

 

[Zazie]

Saying Hedi Slimane is heavily influenced by Raf Simons isn't dissing his work, if you can tell the difference. Not that it makes any difference to their fame and fortune, HS has ALL of the breaks so far, and much as I detest the Prada group, it's cool that at least RS is getting his backing and into the spotlight now. If anything, some of us are just trying to give RS his due, he's been around for a long time, and HS is always getting credit for what he started. It doesn't mean HS doesn't deserve it as his interpretation of the idea may be different, it only means it has been unfair to RS that he's been neglected by the press and his designs are under the radar, until this season. It's not some zero sum game, that RS's gain is HS's loss. Those who appreciate RS more should be able to state their opinions too.

 

[tricotineacetat]

Saying Hedi Slimane is heavily influenced by Raf Simons isn't dissing his work, if you can tell the difference. Not that it makes any difference to their fame and fortune, HS has ALL of the breaks so far, and much as I detest the Prada group, it's cool that at least RS is getting his backing and into the spotlight now. If anything, some of us are just trying to give RS his due, he's been around for a long time, and HS is always getting credit for what he started. It doesn't mean HS doesn't deserve it as his interpretation of the idea may be different, it only means it has been unfair to RS that he's been neglected by the press and his designs are under the radar, until this season. It's not some zero sum game, that RS's gain is HS's loss. Those who appreciate RS more should be able to state their opinions too.

I actually thought that Raf had quite a good amount of dedicated followers in here.

 

[Foxie-Pooh]

What's the big deal...if he wants to try women's wear then try it. He probably has backers to try a collection or 2...if he can get LVMH to allow him to do a womens collection then he should try it. We'll see then if he can deliever a decent and profitable collection...if his project fails then he'll just stick with menswear...I mean it's his decision to make..he can do whatever he wants to do or experiment...it's really up to him to decide on what kind to collection he wants to produce or the direction he wants to go...I don't think this thread is a good place to compare Raf and Hedi...a separate thread may be more suitable...or perhaps name this "Is Hedi following Raf" because I believe it was supposed to be a thread about his womens collection, not a comparsion of the two's work

 

[tricotineacetat]

I don't think this thread is a good place to compare Raf and Hedi...a separate thread may be more suitable

Indeed, but I guess he doesn´t even need an investor for his business, his design work at Dior must have given him enough financial power to keep it running on his own...

 

[new_dawn_fades]

please dont take any offence..but is it just me or does anyone else wonder how gay men seem to climb up ladders rather quickly in the world of art and culture(fashion etc).. this has been the case since time immemmorial.. i have heard rumors of hedi and karl and so on and so forth.. i dont care about his private life, im just curious if his private life benefits his career... i think the circles that hedi moves around promoted him to the level that he is at right now.... compared to the quiet and reserved Raf.. i definitely dont see raf as a partyanimal or even a major fashion socialite(although he is said to be very friendly)
.... i think it comes down to personal taste..i like to see the perspective of the designer..and i like rafs perspective..some people like hedi's ..i dont think they are in any way similar... nevertheless.. raf will and will always be ahead of hedi as i feel raf is more of a conceptualist and a thinker(like yohji) than hedi ...but that is just me... I would like a seperate thread for this discussion too!

 

[tricotineacetat]

please dont take any offence..but is it just me or does anyone else wonder how gay men seem to climb up ladders rather quickly in the world of art and culture(fashion etc).. this has been the case since time immemmorial.. i have heard rumors of hedi and karl and so on and so forth.. i dont care about his private life, im just curious if his private life benefits his career... i think the circles that hedi moves around promoted him to the level that he is at right now.... compared to the quiet and reserved Raf.. i definitely dont see raf as a partyanimal or even a major fashion socialite(although he is said to be very friendly)
.... i think it comes down to personal taste..i like to see the perspective of the designer..and i like rafs perspective..some people like hedi's ..i dont think they are in any way similar... nevertheless.. raf will and will always be ahead of hedi as i feel raf is more of a conceptualist and a thinker(like yohji) than hedi ...but that is just me... I would like a seperate thread for this discussion too!

Totally, Hedi´s career has had a good boost since he knew to socialize with the right people at the right time - I can´t tell if it was on purpose but in fashion (as well as in any related industry) it is indeed hard to just sit in your atelier and just create beautiful clothes, people have to get known so that the buyers and press are coming. Support is key if ou want to grow and build up reputation. It´s not a particularly nice thing but it would be foolish to just stubbornly ignore how the game is being played.

 

[Zazie]

Eek....I hope HS wasn't coerced into a fling with KL or anything like that, poor thing.

HS does enjoy better connections, a much higher profile and all that.

Yes, tricot, RS has a lot of supporters here on TFS, though I wouldn't say more than HS. Unfortunately, our support doesn't make much difference, compared to say Miss Wintour's or KL's. I'm glad that RS is finally getting good press with this season's collections.

This "rivalry" of sorts is off-topic, but I guess the two are so intertwined, their professional directions will always be compared. I have a feeling that HS's women's wear would be more successful, with all that sparkly beads and satin that he uses this season. This approach doesn't interest me personally, though.

 

[tricotineacetat]

I think we should all accept that Raf Simons is a designer that attracts a rather small niche market rather than Bernard Arnaud´s intention with Dior Homme, given the fact that there they do heavy investment - which results in the opening of even more shop-in-shop corners, freestanding boutiques and flagship stores as well as the expensive and widely spread AD campaigns. It is quite an abrupt change how Dior Homme as well started as a rather small niche market with an elite point of view, slowly turning into a power house with a big time cashflow, obviously bought by more than just skinny youths.

I don´t know how a freestanding Hedi Slimane brand would look like but it will probably not be as BIG as Dior Homme is these days, and that´s just a matter of cash, really. Perhaps if he hooked up once again to work with YSL, he could bring it to the same height as he did with Dior, that´s when he´d finally become a fashion superstar, with both Dior and YSL in his curriculum vitae.

As far as the clothes are concerned, I´m not sure how it´ll look like - maybe a bit like Dior Homme for girls (elegant smokings, shiny/chintzed fabrics, drainpipe trousers), slightly the way his former assistant Nicolas Andreas is designing but probably not as hard-edged. I guess it won´t be long until we can see results, I am curious.

 

[new_dawn_fades]

^ i must agree with you on this one tricot... if hedi ever did womenswear it would definitely sell better than rafs womenswear..that is my current observation BUT..i do not know what raf has up his sleeves.. i believe he will experiment a bit more..hopefully..
but hedi's design for men is already a hit among some women..like u said..which already shows its marketability.. i see raf as being a designer's designer...i doubt whether raf will have as much commercial success as monsieur slimane.. but i see raf gaining more respect as a fashion revolutionary, among the elite... than hedi. funny that u mention nicolas andreas..i love his work... but it is quite clear that if hedi ever does womenswear it will be a hit...theres no doubt about that...look at the facilities he has access to... im sorry to all the galliano fans out there..he is talented in his own right..but i think Hedi will make a lot more money for dior than galliano...it would look a lot more classier as well.. but i dont really see that happening..maybe a lil bit.. if hedi is smart he will start his own womens line.. i dont think dior homme will let him go...unless ofcourse he chooses to.


quote tricot
....Support is key if ou want to grow and build up reputation. It´s not a particularly nice thing but it would be foolish to just stubbornly ignore how the game is being played.

very sad that is the true fact..so i wasnt wrong with my judgment. i think there is a lot of meaning to the saying "Artists die poor".

 

[tricotineacetat]

I don´t think it´s much different than with any other human relationship... you´re always willing to give more support if you can connect with somebody on a personal level... and with Hedi, it was all these influential people. I am telling you this since I experienced it myself - we do have Dior Homme but we also have people like Stephan Schneider, Nicolas Andreas Taralis or Bruno Pieters in the shop that I know *personally*, so naturally I feel more connected to their work than to somebody else´s where I just see the fancy runway.

 

[new_dawn_fades]

^true... hmm maybe not such a sad factor after all.. i said that with reference to raf.. because i think very highly of him.

 

[Zazie]

I do!

I meant chic garcon in the way it used to be in pre-politically correct France, as in "Garcon, l'addition s'il vous plait!"