What Makes A Fashion Brand Good?

[LadyJunon]

After seeing the decline of several brands, be it financially like Prada, or artistically like Dries Van Noten, or even the peaking of Jacquemus, I have been wondering what makes a fashion brand, or a fashion brand under a certain creative direction, so appealing in the first place and how a brand or designer keeps their artistic integrity as the brand goes through these various stages of growth.

 

[Lola701]

QUALITY for me is what makes a fashion brand good IMO.
Quality of design, quality of product, quality of communication and creative direction.
Quality of product is maybe the only thing that is not subjective in the whole thing but for me it’s all about quality and maybe coherence.

I don’t believe in the « ultimate brand » anymore but for a longtime, particularly in the 90’s and the 00’s we have been blessed by what was ultimate brands.

I think about some brands like Helmut Lang under Lang, Dior Homme by Hedi, Dries Van Noten before Puig, Balenciaga by NG, Chanel by Karl from the early 00’s to maybe the early 2010’s, Prada from 2000 to 2015, Gucci and YSL by Tom Ford, Balmain by CD, Lanvin by Alber Elbaz, Céline by Phoebe, Alaia by Azzedine

There are maybe more examples but when I think about those examples and sometimes specific periods, I remember great collections, great shows, great campaigns and stores, great artistic direction, great communication and great quality of clothing.

And about the last question, it’s difficult to keep the integrity and the quality as the brand grows. Success is the biggest threat for a brand.
Some designers have values and integrity but it’s sometimes difficult to maintain it when the management doesn’t have the culture of fashion and only thinks about the numbers.

It’s something that we saw at KERING for example…

 

[LadyJunon]

QUALITY for me is what makes a fashion brand good IMO.
Quality of design, quality of product, quality of communication and creative direction.
Quality of product is maybe the only thing that is not subjective in the whole thing but for me it’s all about quality and maybe coherence.

I don’t believe in the « ultimate brand » anymore but for a longtime, particularly in the 90’s and the 00’s we have been blessed by what was ultimate brands.

I think about some brands like Helmut Lang under Lang, Dior Homme by Hedi, Dries Van Noten before Puig, Balenciaga by NG, Chanel by Karl from the early 00’s to maybe the early 2010’s, Prada from 2000 to 2015, Gucci and YSL by Tom Ford, Balmain by CD, Lanvin by Alber Elbaz, Céline by Phoebe, Alaia by Azzedine

There are maybe more examples but when I think about those examples and sometimes specific periods, I remember great collections, great shows, great campaigns and stores, great artistic direction, great communication and great quality of clothing.

And about the last question, it’s difficult to keep the integrity and the quality as the brand grows. Success is the biggest threat for a brand.
Some designers have values and integrity but it’s sometimes difficult to maintain it when the management doesn’t have the culture of fashion and only thinks about the numbers.

It’s something that we saw at KERING for example...

That's interesting, but what the brand in question is independent? For example, Jacquemus is an independent brand, but the artistic integrity, product quality and overall brand image plummeted in the space of two years. The difference in care between SS'20 and SS'22 is almost comical.

 

[Lola701]

That's interesting, but what the brand in question is independent? For example, Jacquemus is an independent brand, but the artistic integrity, product quality and overall brand image plummeted in the space of two years. The difference in care between SS'20 and SS'22 is almost comical.

Jacquemus has never been that for me as a brand…Even if I think that when brands are independent or even smaller, they deliver usually in all categories. There’s no quality of design and product…
The brand is successful because of the great communication and he is a clever marketer.

The issue is that ultimately some great independent brands are being bought by groups. Thom Browne for example…
Even Dries. I’ve always been very vocal about how great the Rue Malaquais store was and how his universe was appealing and d’elle executed.

Jacquemus had the potential but unfortunately, he hasn’t evolved in the best way.
JWA has an interesting brand too even if for me, it’s too pretentious sometimes

 

[Phuel]

Jacquemus has never even had the slightest of potential to be good, as far as I'm concerned.

It's a brand catering to Instagram on-trend sensibilities, nothing more. The brand has absolutely nothing to do with artistry, integrity and the highest of standards that is reserved and expected of a high fashion brand. If I’m being kind and overly-generous, it’s a brand that’s the equivalent of what Alexander Wang was at its most popular. No one expects these trendy brands to last, and Jacquemus will never have any lasting impression, and easily forgotten in fashion once it’s no longer trending. But sadly, this brand and its success is what best represents the business-model that the new generation of “designers” strive to achieve: Rich and famous celebrity-designer churning out trendy, nondescript fast-fashions for 15yos raised on Insta and the desperately-seeking-to-be-relevent middle-age gayz that need a Jacquenus-logo bucket hat. These fair-weather customers will dump him once there’s a new trendy brand to move on to.

Very few talents possess the creative vision, along with the masterful technical execution of Gaultier/McQueen/Galliano. Even during their era of highest of standards, they were unmatched. And even personal favs Helmut/Tom Ford/Hedi/Miuccia didn’t and couldn’t compare to these fashion visionaries in terms of extraordinary artistic vision beyond fashion. Once their thickly-veiled theatrical, cinematic presentations were stripped away from the actual designs, these designs remained gorgeous garments that stood on their own merits. Those of us fortunate, and extremely privileged to have experienced such a diverse roster of talents— from the ones mentioned, along with the likes of Dries,Tisci,Theyskens, Yohji, Calvin Klein, Donna Karan, Marc Jacobs, Rei etc that all managed to produce highly creative, artistic and timelessly inspiring imagery, some the equivalent of fine art of the fashion world, along with equally, tirelessly influential fashions, is what deserves the status of a “good fashion brand”. They have maintained that highest of standards for decades that any of the new generation of designers have yet to reach.

(It’s telling how such a talent as Haider Ackermann is struggling in these lesser times dominated by such mediocrity. He is, by all means, too good for this era.)

 

[LadyJunon]

Jacquemus has never even had the slightest of potential to be good, as far as I'm concerned.

It's a brand catering to Instagram on-trend sensibilities, nothing more. The brand has absolutely nothing to do with artistry, integrity and the highest of standards that is reserved and expected of a high fashion brand. If I’m being kind and overly-generous, it’s a brand that’s the equivalent of what Alexander Wang was at its most popular. No one expects these trendy brands to last, and Jacquemus will never have any lasting impression, and easily forgotten in fashion once it’s no longer trending. But sadly, this brand and its success is what best represents the business-model that the new generation of “designers” strive to achieve: Rich and famous celebrity-designer churning out trendy, nondescript fast-fashions for 15yos raised on Insta and the desperately-seeking-to-be-relevent middle-age gayz that need a Jacquenus-logo bucket hat. These fair-weather customers will dump him once there’s a new trendy brand to move on to.

Very few talents possess the creative vision, along with the masterful technical execution of Gaultier/McQueen/Galliano. Even during their era of highest of standards, they were unmatched. And even personal favs Helmut/Tom Ford/Hedi/Miuccia didn’t and couldn’t compare to these fashion visionaries in terms of extraordinary artistic vision beyond fashion. Once their thickly-veiled theatrical, cinematic presentations were stripped away from the actual designs, these designs remained gorgeous garments that stood on their own merits. Those of us fortunate, and extremely privileged to have experienced such a diverse roster of talents— from the ones mentioned, along with the likes of Dries,Tisci,Theyskens, Yohji, Calvin Klein, Donna Karan, Marc Jacobs, Rei etc that all managed to produce highly creative, artistic and timelessly inspiring imagery, some the equivalent of fine art of the fashion world, along with equally, tirelessly influential fashions, is what deserves the status of a “good fashion brand”. They have maintained that highest of standards for decades that any of the new generation of designers have yet to reach.

(It’s telling how such a talent as Haider Ackermann is struggling in these lesser times dominated by such mediocrity. He is, by all means, too good for this era.)

As much as I hate to admit it, you're right about Jacquemus...

So what do think made older designers like Theyskens, Dries and Haider so good then? I can see a level of complexity that I don't see in newer designers, but I can't figure out where it comes from...

 

[Norden]

I think what makes those designers good is their all encompassing vision and being able to execute and imbue it into their design, marketing, production and presentation. The have a strong link to culture that’s beyond a superficial moodboard or clickbait. Someone who floats in between this is demna for me. He pingpongs between design greatness and internet trolling for me.

 

[LadyJunon]

I think what makes those designers good is their all encompassing vision and being able to execute and imbue it into their design, marketing, production and presentation. The have a strong link to culture that’s beyond a superficial moodboard or clickbait. Someone who floats in between this is demna for me. He pingpongs between design greatness and internet trolling for me.

I see. So you need a strong vision that you are sincerely attached to and the technical skills and eye to bring that vision to life in a dignified manner. Do you think that it's the era we are in that stops Demna from achieving pure greatest? It is the "troll" designs (logos, sneakers, hoodies, t-shirts) that bring in the most money.

 

[Mutterlein]

That's a loaded question.

Here's my criteria:

Originality and Creativity: Are they thinking? Are they challenging themselves and their craft? Do they have it in them? Are they even trying?

Point of view: Do they have an opinion on more than clothes? Typography, interiors, music, communications, casting, etc? A great brand resonates beyond clothes. It's a mood and sensibility all its own.

Quality and Technique: Are they making beautiful objects or are they making trash? Good fabrics? What do they clothes look like on the inside? Integrity is integral for me. Are they making impeccable clothes, innovating with new techniques? Wowing us with old ones? Do they have the technical know how to execute and make real the clothes they dream up?

Relevance and Pertinence: Are they making clothes people want to wear? Are they designing for needs? Are they designing for dreams? Are they listening?

Business Saviness: Fashion is a business, how are they conducting theirs? Are they thinking through their production, merchandising, marketing, etc?

Consistency If one season is great and another is sh*t then it's no good. Can I count on them for certain key items? Will they continue to be the brand I love or will it become some gross thing in a few years time?

Some brands excel in certain areas more than others but any good fashion brand should be stong in all.

 

[Lola701]

That's a loaded question.

Here's my criteria:

Originality and Creativity: Are they thinking? Are they challenging themselves and their craft? Do they have it in them? Are they even trying?

Point of view: Do they have an opinion on more than clothes? Typography, interiors, music, communications, casting, etc? A great brand resonates beyond clothes. It's a mood and sensibility all its own.

Quality and Technique: Are they making beautiful objects or are they making trash? Good fabrics? What do they clothes look like on the inside? Integrity is integral for me. Are they making impeccable clothes, innovating with new techniques? Wowing us with old ones? Do they have the technical know how to execute and make real the clothes they dream up?

Relevance and Pertinence: Are they making clothes people want to wear? Are they designing for needs? Are they designing for dreams? Are they listening?

Business Saviness: Fashion is a business, how are they conducting theirs? Are they thinking through their production, merchandising, marketing, etc?

Consistency If one season is great and another is sh*t then it's no good. Can I count on them for certain key items? Will they continue to be the brand I love or will it become some gross thing in a few years time?

Some brands excel in certain areas more than others but any good fashion brand should be stong in all.

Thread closed. He has said everything! Amen!

 

[LadyJunon]

Thread closed. He has said everything! Amen!

Amen!

 

[Salvatore]

That's a loaded question.

Here's my criteria:

Originality and Creativity: Are they thinking? Are they challenging themselves and their craft? Do they have it in them? Are they even trying?

Point of view: Do they have an opinion on more than clothes? Typography, interiors, music, communications, casting, etc? A great brand resonates beyond clothes. It's a mood and sensibility all its own.

Quality and Technique: Are they making beautiful objects or are they making trash? Good fabrics? What do they clothes look like on the inside? Integrity is integral for me. Are they making impeccable clothes, innovating with new techniques? Wowing us with old ones? Do they have the technical know how to execute and make real the clothes they dream up?

Relevance and Pertinence: Are they making clothes people want to wear? Are they designing for needs? Are they designing for dreams? Are they listening?

Business Saviness: Fashion is a business, how are they conducting theirs? Are they thinking through their production, merchandising, marketing, etc?

Consistency If one season is great and another is sh*t then it's no good. Can I count on them for certain key items? Will they continue to be the brand I love or will it become some gross thing in a few years time?

Some brands excel in certain areas more than others but any good fashion brand should be stong in all.

This seriously needs to be given to designers, fashion students, anyone wanting to be a fashion designer. So many overlook a lot of these elements or forget them and need to be reminded. Such great insight, Mutterlein !

 

[Mutterlein]

Brands that I think are doing a fantastic job:

Lemaire (my absolute favorite, so I'm biased)

Thom Browne (personally I hate it but it's very well done)

Loewe (a standout among the LVMH portfolio IMO)

Tory Burch (particularly good when you consider the scale)

Comme Des Garcons (haven't liked a collection in a while but the CDG universe is so incredibly articulated and fleshed out).

Ralph Lauren

Celine (Hedi's micromanagement works)

The Row

Vince (Caroline Belhumeur is under the radar heavyweight talent)

Eileen Fisher

UNIQLO

Patagonia

Sorry it's a a bit American-centric

Hmmmmm... that's all I can think of atm.

 

[bc collector]

To the above, I would add: a good audience.

If designers nowadays can get away with such a monstrous level of mediocrity it's because there's an audience that allows them to. If the average fashion customer were a bit less gullible (and, let me say it, a bit more fashion literate) successes like that of the Gvasalias - in all their forms - would not have been possible.

 

[susseinmcswanny]

I think right now something that would lead the absolute F outta fashion would be someone, aside from the interesting point of view and skills at execution blah blah blah, who would be willing to be transparent and present a whole collection while releasing patterns with 100% start to finish construction details to the public to let them have a go at it. This would totally set a match to the "democratization" stuff that's been going on forever. While the exclusivity of couture houses etc is something that makes them so alluring, letting people be the judge of whether or not your garment they love is worth the price vs attempting to make it themselves would have everyone's attention and respect. And I honestly think if your design was authentic and inspired with the addition of your high level of craft, you wouldn't hurt financially to people making the clothes themselves. Idk how no one has tried this yet.

 

[LadyJunon]

I think right now something that would lead the absolute F outta fashion would be someone, aside from the interesting point of view and skills at execution blah blah blah, who would be willing to be transparent and present a whole collection while releasing patterns with 100% start to finish construction details to the public to let them have a go at it. This would totally set a match to the "democratization" stuff that's been going on forever. While the exclusivity of couture houses etc is something that makes them so alluring, letting people be the judge of whether or not your garment they love is worth the price vs attempting to make it themselves would have everyone's attention and respect. And I honestly think if your design was authentic and inspired with the addition of your high level of craft, you wouldn't hurt financially to people making the clothes themselves. Idk how no one has tried this yet.

That sounds amazing and engaging. But this could be risky, considering that fast fashion would literally be given the blueprint to easily recreate designer clothes. Cuts and styles aren't protected like logos are.

 

[Evega]

Quality and uniqueness

 

[IraBrad]

As for me, first of all it's quality and personal position in a market.

 

[runner]

and production, which cannot be copied easily.

 

[Drusilla_]

A strong point of view that's an underlying constant from season to season. Ralph Lauren might not be my favourite designer, but has excellent branding under the all-encompassing idea of Americana, even if individual collections look different from each other.

As a consumer I would wish production quality to be excellent, but often I find that the bigger the brand, the less likely this is. Beyond a certain point, anyway.

Brands that I think are good: the Japanese holy triumvirate (Comme, Issey, Yohji - close your eyes and you can think of their each of their distinctive styles of design in a heartbeat), Dries van Noten, Ann Demeulemeester (while Ann was still at the label), Rick Owens, and on the high street & Other Stories and Zara.In the mass market, Nike and Adidas (I know).