Do You Fear for the Future of Chanel?

The reformulations will never stop, it's industry-wide and mostly compelled by IFRA Standards.

Some companies strive hard to work around the changes, to ensure the modern versions stay as close as they can to the originals, others don't seem to care if their legendary perfumes are a shadow of their former selves.
 
The reformulations will never stop, it's industry-wide and mostly compelled by IFRA Standards.

Some companies strive hard to work around the changes, to ensure the modern versions stay as close as they can to the originals, others don't seem to care if their legendary perfumes are a shadow of their former selves.
IFRA should be completely ignored. They don't care about preserving their legacy and I gladly don't have to buy the new versions, thank god for ebay.
 
What is wrong with going back to what Chanel was before karl? chanel is the greatest designer of all time, every single thing women wear today can be directly traced back to chanel. it was also a style for women with capital w. teenage models walking in chanel jackets looked absolutely ridiculous and they didn't embrace the style. karl made chanel a vulgar thing you only buy to show you have money, like a rolls royce and only the crud like emma roberts embraced it. she looked completely laughable in her scream queens show dressed as jackie o lol so embarrassing.
They're talking about the years between Chanel and Karl, obviously...
 
Nepotism doesn’t take you that far in fashion. You don’t create a career solely thanks to nepotism…Look at Julia Roitfeld.

Racism and misoginy are issues, serious ones. But you can create opportunities for people and address issues while looking for the best. And it was never done…
Nepotism does get you very far, just look at kENDULL Jenner, lily rose and kaiah gerber.

The only people who have been racist in the fashion industry are people like Anna Wintour who closed an iron gate for people of color for 40 years, and people like Naomi Campbell who has brutally physically beaten everyone in her employ, many of them women of color, and who sabotaged other models of colors careers, and people like Karl Lagerfeld who also kept Chanel an strictly white brand for 50 years.

Lagerfeld is in hell now but Wintour and Campbell and many others are constantly looking down on other people and accusing them of racism when they were the racists all along! They also want to institute an inverse racism policy, by propping up mediocre people like Edward Enninful. This is the same tactic as the racist iron gate that they used all along, except it's the inverse, now you have to prove you are not racist. It's just another way of keeping people out.

And brands are falling in line and doing the most. You cannot open a fashion brand website, from Chanel to Zara without having huge in your face photos of models of color everywhere you go. I do not know about you but I don.t appreciate people of color being used in such a cynical and racist way.
 
not everything can be traced back to chanel. at the end of the day she did a bellhop jacket in tweed. the chains and pearls are Karl not Gabrielle.
 
not everything can be traced back to chanel. at the end of the day she did a bellhop jacket in tweed. the chains and pearls are Karl not Gabrielle.
bellhop jacket? it was a military jacket. Pretty much all the fashion vocabulary used today can be traced to Chanel. If you are referring to the chains inside the jackets that's from Chanel too. Same with the pearls and chains, look up pictures of her, she wears them all the time.
 
didnt a chanel film with pharrell talk about how the inspiration was a bellhop ... im not gonna look it up...
 
The reformulations will never stop, it's industry-wide and mostly compelled by IFRA Standards.

Some companies strive hard to work around the changes, to ensure the modern versions stay as close as they can to the originals, others don't seem to care if their legendary perfumes are a shadow of their former selves.
The European norms have tremendously changed the perfume industry as it has forced brands to reformulate a lot of fragrances. That being said, from all the historic Couture house with a fragrance heritage, Chanel is almost a miracle of preservation. They have a consistent line of fragrances, they don’t discontinue the ones that aren’t big hits and there’s still a sense of quality from all of their fragrances.
When you compare Chanel to Dior or even Hermes or YSL in that department, they are above them all.


didnt a chanel film with pharrell talk about how the inspiration was a bellhop ... im not gonna look it up...
Yes the Paris-Saltzburg collection…
The jacket was inspired by the groom’s jacket in a Hotel in Saltzburg.

I think Karl understood Chanel perfectly but also knew how to play with everything and it contrary. And it was always balanced. The vulgarity was balanced with humor, the very conservative with surrealism, minimalism with futurism…etc.
Great tenures are made of many things…Even more because he was still from that generation of designers who knew the clients, lived the same life as their clients and the whole thing.

Nepotism does get you very far, just look at kENDULL Jenner, lily rose and kaiah gerber.

The only people who have been racist in the fashion industry are people like Anna Wintour who closed an iron gate for people of color for 40 years, and people like Naomi Campbell who has brutally physically beaten everyone in her employ, many of them women of color, and who sabotaged other models of colors careers, and people like Karl Lagerfeld who also kept Chanel an strictly white brand for 50 years.

Lagerfeld is in hell now but Wintour and Campbell and many others are constantly looking down on other people and accusing them of racism when they were the racists all along! They also want to institute an inverse racism policy, by propping up mediocre people like Edward Enninful. This is the same tactic as the racist iron gate that they used all along, except it's the inverse, now you have to prove you are not racist. It's just another way of keeping people out.

And brands are falling in line and doing the most. You cannot open a fashion brand website, from Chanel to Zara without having huge in your face photos of models of color everywhere you go. I do not know about you but I don.t appreciate people of color being used in such a cynical and racist way.

Beyond my love for Karl, I don’t have the same POV regarding racism. I worked in the industry, in Paris, in the heart of the system in the 00’s and the question of racism is different from an inside POV. I think people from the outside have those names they deemed as « faces of the problem » when it’s a little bit more nuanced. Everybody is complicit because they are part of a system but I still remember that, even if the industry was smaller at the time, more stigmatized also, only Anna and Karl had people of color in high positions. There was one Andre Leon Talley, creative director of US Vogue. All the people around weren’t necessarily inspired to follow the lead with people of color. Eric Wright was Karl’s design director at Fendi and Lagerfeld. I can tell you that in Italy or Paris, it wasn’t the norm to have people of color in all the studios. You could go to Gaultier, maybe Alber or the Americans in Paris but even with Galliano who had diverse casts for his shows, the Dior offices weren’t the same. One of Karl’s Pr is still to this day a black girl…
Even Saint Laurent who put diversity on the runway, only had diversity with the seamstresses. But nobody call him a racist.

The industry at large is responsible for the racism issue because we can’t really say that a lot of people of color, when in high positions, championed for diversity either, at a time when the industry was smaller.

Naomi definitely has a posture, mostly because being one of the top, trying to stay at the top, she was always somehow in competition with every black girl coming in.

I don’t agree for Edward. He is where he is because he decided to play the cards and he played them well.
 
The European norms have tremendously changed the perfume industry as it has forced brands to reformulate a lot of fragrances. That being said, from all the historic Couture house with a fragrance heritage, Chanel is almost a miracle of preservation. They have a consistent line of fragrances, they don’t discontinue the ones that aren’t big hits and there’s still a sense of quality from all of their fragrances.
When you compare Chanel to Dior or even Hermes or YSL in that department, they are above them all.



Yes the Paris-Saltzburg collection…
The jacket was inspired by the groom’s jacket in a Hotel in Saltzburg.

I think Karl understood Chanel perfectly but also knew how to play with everything and it contrary. And it was always balanced. The vulgarity was balanced with humor, the very conservative with surrealism, minimalism with futurism…etc.
Great tenures are made of many things…Even more because he was still from that generation of designers who knew the clients, lived the same life as their clients and the whole thing.



Beyond my love for Karl, I don’t have the same POV regarding racism. I worked in the industry, in Paris, in the heart of the system in the 00’s and the question of racism is different from an inside POV. I think people from the outside have those names they deemed as « faces of the problem » when it’s a little bit more nuanced. Everybody is complicit because they are part of a system but I still remember that, even if the industry was smaller at the time, more stigmatized also, only Anna and Karl had people of color in high positions. There was one Andre Leon Talley, creative director of US Vogue. All the people around weren’t necessarily inspired to follow the lead with people of color. Eric Wright was Karl’s design director at Fendi and Lagerfeld. I can tell you that in Italy or Paris, it wasn’t the norm to have people of color in all the studios. You could go to Gaultier, maybe Alber or the Americans in Paris but even with Galliano who had diverse casts for his shows, the Dior offices weren’t the same. One of Karl’s Pr is still to this day a black girl…
Even Saint Laurent who put diversity on the runway, only had diversity with the seamstresses. But nobody call him a racist.

The industry at large is responsible for the racism issue because we can’t really say that a lot of people of color, when in high positions, championed for diversity either, at a time when the industry was smaller.

Naomi definitely has a posture, mostly because being one of the top, trying to stay at the top, she was always somehow in competition with every black girl coming in.

I don’t agree for Edward. He is where he is because he decided to play the cards and he played them well.
I believe people should be hired based on talent and ability, of which Edward Enninful has none in my opinion. Andre Leon Talley worked for many years at Vogue, there was still that article of many former employees basically saying that the Vogue offices were in fact racist. It got enough traction to force Anna Wintour's ridiculous "we are listening" statement. Many people across many industries have been pro equality simply as part of being a decent person, now the racists like Anna Wintour and Naomi campbell are attacking them and looking down on them and forcing them to prove they aren't racist by forcing them to put up with Peter syndrome people like edward enninful.
 
I believe people should be hired based on talent and ability, of which Edward Enninful has none in my opinion. Andre Leon Talley worked for many years at Vogue, there was still that article of many former employees basically saying that the Vogue offices were in fact racist. It got enough traction to force Anna Wintour's ridiculous "we are listening" statement. Many people across many industries have been pro equality simply as part of being a decent person, now the racists like Anna Wintour and Naomi campbell are attacking them and looking down on them and forcing them to prove they aren't racist by forcing them to put up with Peter syndrome people like edward enninful.
But that’s what I’m saying. One person can’t be the poster child for a whole organization. I’m sure they were racist people in the fashion brand I work at. The creative director wasn’t but that doesn’t mean that the organization isn’t. Much like Anna giving the opportunity to Andre doesn’t change anything in the organization. It was Andre duty, thanks to his connections to help change things. He was best friend with someone who had an influence on the advertising budget of 4 brands…

For me things are always nuanced. And it’s always difficult for me, coming from where I come from, to have a definitive opinion on the names that are thrown around. I think Sir Newhouse had a bigger responsibility. When I think about runway shows, I usually side eye casting directors instead of some designers.

But everybody has been part of the problem.

And regarding Edward, I think he has a talent. There are more or less talented people than him but he is someone who played his cards well. What he did for Vogue Italia and W was great. I’m less thrilled by his world for Vogue UK but I can’t say that when he was hired at the position, it looked like he robbed someone. And fashion is not a field you choose if you want any type social justice.
Talent can be key but relationships are more than prevalent. And we are talking about creative jobs, where just a CV and good experience are sometimes not enough when a lot of profiles are similar.

Maybe what I regret is that diversity became a posture and a think that has kind of eat everything when it was supposed to be more organic. And Edward definitely uses it in his narrative and as an advantage…

I think we have been quite off topic now. Back to Chanel.
 
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But everybody has been part of the problem.
Not true, some people are genuinely not racist and have not contributed to it, myself included. I am not going to be judged now by people like Anna Wintour who has been a racist her entire life. What was it that RJ Cutler said? You can't make it in the industry without Wintour's approval. "The single most influential figure in fashion", now she is blameless for 50 years of racism, gotcha.
 
off-hand that Paris-Salzburg Metier D Art may be one of Karls best. That collection features gorgeous silhouettes with sophisticated assembly.
 
why would a bunch of parisians selling clothes to other europeans and occassional americans have models who dont look like their customers?

people being racist in the heirarchy is different. it should be purely merit and skill based in fashion. In reality fashion is basically wall st 2.0 and its all about who you know.
 
why would a bunch of parisians selling clothes to other europeans and occassional americans have models who dont look like their customers?
what do you mean?

Regarding the metiers d'art show, i didn't like the colors but the shapes are closer to original Chanel shapes. I love Chanel but like i said it is not a youthful style and i don't see the young demographic embracing the staples unless it has a huge cc logo, but they don't wear the chanel suit or slingbacks. maybe i am wrong. the disgraceful scream queens chanels looked completely out of touch because not even the rich kids dress that way. i love the perfumes and wear them everyday but i've had sales girls say in disgust, ugh i can't deal with chanel.
 
why would i hire models that dont look like my customers. The whole point is for the customer to imagine that Kate Moss is their cousin they never met. Alek Wek is their half neice…I would try to cast models that look like my customers. I am talking thats why id cast models with strong visages so that Mortimer IV sees a model that looks like it could be related to him - and rushes his wifes to place a 200k order.


North West was just wearing chanel HC. She obviously asked for it because in Beverly Hills a chanel jacket with jeans is the look.
 
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why would i hire models that dont look like my customers. The whole point is for the customer to imagine that Kate Moss is their cousin they never met. Alek Wek is their half neice…I would try to cast models that look like my customers. I am talking thats why id cast models with strong visages so that Mortimer IV sees a model that looks like it could be related to him - and rushes his wifes to place a 200k order.


North West was just wearing chanel HC. She obviously asked for it because in Beverly Hills a chanel jacket with jeans is the look.
North West is pathetic.
 
This looks a bad sign of what's to come for Chanel...
LVMH, Chanel to Harmonize CSR Reporting at Supplier Level
The cooperation was unveiled during an all-day LVMH event that also revealed a partnership support program with its suppliers.

By RHONDA RICHFORD
DECEMBER 15, 2023, 12:16AM

PARIS
— The luxury world is recognizing that when it comes to sustainability, cooperation is better than competition.

In a groundbreaking tie-up of two of the world’s largest luxury groups, LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton on Thursday revealed it will cooperate with Chanel to harmonize corporate and social responsibility reporting and audit schedules at the supplier level. It will also directly support its suppliers through a partnership program titled Life 360 Business Partners, and will launch LVMH Circularity, which will reuse unsold products from across group houses in new projects, among other initiatives.

The initiatives were revealed as LVMH held a full-circle day of sustainability under its Life 360 banner, bringing together brand presidents and creative directors at the UNESCO headquarters in Paris, hosted by the group’s head of image and environment, Antoine Arnault.

LVMH chief Bernard Arnault also acknowledged LVMH and Chanel working together. “The environmental challenge redefines the usual rules of competition,” the chairman and chief executive officer said. Arnault said that competition should be on design and creativity, and businesses can share information.

“I believe it is our duty to know how to rise above the usual patterns. This is why we have chosen to invite certain competitors today,” he added. “Progress of any kind is crucial. We must join forces.”

During the day, the French luxury group discussed its wins, such as meeting its 10 percent energy reduction target at its stores, and where it is facing challenges such as removing fossil fuel-based plastic from its packaging.

The partnership program with suppliers will include financial support and coinvestment, as well as education and other initiatives to bring the suppliers on board as partners, hopefully making any mandatory changes positive rather than penalizing.

“The name of the game from now on for us is going to be Scope 3,” Arnault told WWD, about extending its sustainability reach further afield. Scope 3 is the supplier level.

“It’s the part of our mission that we control the least by definition; however, we are going to try to help our suppliers and our partners be more active on this topic — to train them, and to invest with them in their transition,” he said. Antoine Arnault acknowledged that companies at this level often face big financial challenges to overhaul their businesses.

“However, we cannot compromise,” he added.

Compliance mechanisms will be stringent but supported with training. “It’s quite tough, but we hope they see it as something helpful and that will help them in their transition,” he added, using the example of vintners trying to transition away from pesticides and herbicides but grappling with lower yields at harvest. “We are going to help them transition also financially and find ways to be more helpful toward our common suppliers,” he said.

Competitors to Cooperate
To that end, LVMH will be cooperating with Chanel at the supplier level.

Antoine Arnault said the two groups have the same vision of luxury and “strongly believe that we will need to work together to move faster.”

Mindful of regulatory and antitrust constraints, the groups will coordinate as much as possible on things like sourcing and vetting of suppliers. While the agreement is in its early days, they have several ideas on the table. Audits are one example Arnault shared. The groups hope to create a collective audit system so that suppliers do not have to repeat their work multiple times.

“We basically just started addressing it, but I know that it is really going to be helpful to have partners we work with.”

Chanel SAS president Bruno Pavlovsky spoke on video about building the alliance between the groups that often source from the same suppliers.

“These are collective challenges as all luxury brands are supplied with leather, cotton, silk and cashmere. Only defined alliances will allow us to help the upstream transform,” he said. Businesses and brands will continue to work within their own creative ecosystems.

“There is also an economic challenge. Right now, cotton from regenerative agriculture which meets all the correct criteria will cost more than bottom-of-the-range cotton, so collectively we need to accept that that is the case. I believe that it is clearly by creating alliances and working together on a defined subject that we will be able to make progress,” he added.

Onstage, Chanel supply chain and ecological transition director Eric Dupont said the privately held luxury house came to the decision to work together with LVMH due to the urgency of the climate crisis. “The stakes are higher than one brand or group,” he said. The alliance will see the groups work together on best practices, particularly on leather, and how to define standards for the suppliers.

At the end of the day, LVMH chief Bernard Arnault took to the stage to reiterate the company’s conviction that climate can be a business decision.

“Action for climate and biodiversity will only be effective if it is seen as a real industrial strategy. The reduction in greenhouse gas emissions cannot be improvised. The protection of biodiversity cannot be improvised. The shift in the agricultural model means that regenerative agriculture cannot be improvised. All these objectives can only be achieved through thoughtful, documented strategies,” he said.

Bernard Arnault also acknowledged LVMH and Chanel working together. “The environmental challenge redefines the usual rules of competition,” he said. Arnault said that competition should be on design and creativity, and businesses can share information.

“I believe it is our duty to know how to rise above the usual patterns. This is why we have chosen to invite certain competitors today,” he added. “Progress of any kind is crucial. We must join forces.”

Much of the day was focused on how luxury players can work together, even from sectors as diverse as spirits to fashion.

The French Fédération de la Haute Couture et de la Mode executive president Pascal Morand said the organization has been working intensively behind the scenes to foster collaboration between the houses.

“The main problem of the fashion industry itself is a volumetric problem,” he said, highlighting that the garment industry turns out about 130 billion pieces a year. Morand has also been working with the European Parliament on crafting some rules that will regulate the fashion industry, including the Eco-design for Sustainable Products Regulation.

Morand said the current proposals are focused on durability and functionality and ignore other factors, including fabric composition, as well as brand value. As a result, there is a paradox in the industry where sometimes luxury products are poorly rated on that scale, or vice versa, he said. “It’s not a case of bad intentions, but it’s a complex system,” of the hard metrics that are proposed.

Changing this system for the long term requires a combination of global governance and legislative solutions, alongside the private sector. At this stage, cooperation is needed to get accurate data and granularity needed to transform the industry.

“This is why we do work with each other…in search of rigor,” he said.

If the day was a music festival, the rock star was of course a McCartney, with Stella taking the stage in conversation with Arnault. The designer and animal advocate started her line in 2001.

“I’m the grandma of sustainability here,” she joked of her 20-year-plus advocacy of sustainability. McCartney has never used animal products in her designs, even when she was an outlier in the industry.

Things have changed. “The next generation of people we’re all going to employ, they will want to work in businesses like this,” she said.

“The biggest impact we have in a positive way on the environment is not using animal products. Agriculture is massively damaging to the planet,” she said, adding that working with animals as products can also be damaging to the people that handle the labor. “It can be very harmful to human welfare. I think that should be in the conversation also.”

McCartney discussed her work with LVMH’s Veuve Clicquot to create grape leather and cork soles for shoes, as well as her championing of Mirim, a plastic-free mushroom-based leather, which is poised to scale up.

“Scalability is the only real answer, because everyone in here — we have businesses to run, right? It’s the only way to swap out bad business. Innovation is really exciting,” she said.

McCartney had also been present at COP28 in Dubai. “You can lose a little bit of hope in that room; here I have a little more hope,” she said about bringing the various stakeholders together at the daylong conference. She encouraged the LVMH employees to be innovative to tackle issues from new positions. “You have to cooperate to solve this problem. Every day at work you need to think outside of the box.”

Creative Directors Taking Steps
One example was creating new hangers, said Patou artistic director Guillaume Henry.

He took to the stage with Dior Men’s and Fendi women’s creative director Kim Jones and Dior perfume creation director Francis Kurkdjian to discuss the various efforts at each of their houses.

Henry said when he realized that getting a garment from factory to store took three hangers, the brand reduced it to one with a new design. He also noted that the brand’s core line of white shirts and black blazers, called Essentiels, is still its bestseller.

Jones discussed Dior Men’s collaboration with Parley for the Oceans that has resulted in two collections that are made from recovered ocean plastic as another example. Its denim capsule collection released in September is made with 100 percent regenerative cotton.

He’s taking on other collections and incorporating alternative materials as much as possible. “With 22 collections a year it is a challenge, but we are getting to the point where we can do that,” he said.

Kurkdjian said one of the biggest challenges for the industry is going to be changing consumers’ perceptions that quantity, heft and volume equals luxury. Kurkdjian noted the industry has spent decades telling the customer one thing, and now has to work to change that perception.

“Nowadays the challenge is to help the client discover that light and sustainable is precious, more than just big and gigantic. It’s a mindset,” he said.

Many of the brand executives acknowledged that transportation is one of their biggest carbon challenges, and they are working to find solutions including more shipping by ocean or rail instead of air freight or trucks.

Packaging is another challenge, both at the brand and the group level, with eliminating plastic a major roadblock. The group will also examine its advertising and media practices, including how photo shoots are conducted.

Speaking from the stage, Arnault was direct: “Things are not getting better, and businesses cannot continue to thrive in a world overheating,” he said.

Arnault added the group is willing to acknowledge that while it is making progress on its goals, there is still a long way to go. “But what I can tell you is that everybody inside LVMH is mobilized that we are conscious that we have a huge responsibility as the leader of the sector, and that we’re taking this into our hands,” he said. “Let’s also be at the same time realistic and honest, our goal is still to continue to grow. And we will continue within that constraint in a way to produce in the best possible way.”
Source: WWD
 
I didnt read that whole thing sorry. This makes sense. Now LV and Chanel buying as one means that they will have bigger orders and push the competiton to the back of the line.

klaus schwab lost…
 

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