fouroclock
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AlmostFamous said:I like the ads and everything.
But, uh, like models aren't real people.
No they're not. They have special powers.
Dove: "Real Women" Campaign
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No they're not. They have special powers.
esmereldagrubb
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^They are freaks of nature......isnt that why we idolize them in a forum?
I think they did the heavier people for the thigh firming cream because they even said in one of their campaigns,"Because honestly, firming the thighs of a size 2 model isn't a challenge", or something like that.
I personally like this idea, and its probably getting them tons of sales and attention, so I say, all the power to them.
As for my personal preference I am imaginative so I like to see the models. Maybe because I'm as tall as them and it is achievable for me to some extent.
They have a few really skinny tall people in their ads, there was this redhead.
I personally like this idea, and its probably getting them tons of sales and attention, so I say, all the power to them.
As for my personal preference I am imaginative so I like to see the models. Maybe because I'm as tall as them and it is achievable for me to some extent.
They have a few really skinny tall people in their ads, there was this redhead.
i don't think this approach is novel. think about who uses dove. customers can identify with these women so there they are. dove isn't trying to get you to accept yourself. it's just a new strategy that may turn out to be very profitable.$$
Personally, I thikn that an ideal situation would be that there would be ads like these, as well as ads featuring the traditional, 5'9" 120lbs model.
Not everyone is skinny, not everyone is voluptuous. We need a variety to mirror society.
Certain aspects are geared towards more of the thin model, such as cotoure and very high end clothes that might not look as good on a bigger model; depending on the brand.
However, beauty ads, jewelry ads, etc could certainly use fuller figured women. I personally think it brings back a feeling of old hollywood glamour (e.g. marilyn monroe) when this approach is used.
Hopefully one day soon we will have room for everything from Kate and Queen Latifah, and everyone in between. This is a good first step :-)
-- J
Not everyone is skinny, not everyone is voluptuous. We need a variety to mirror society.
Certain aspects are geared towards more of the thin model, such as cotoure and very high end clothes that might not look as good on a bigger model; depending on the brand.
However, beauty ads, jewelry ads, etc could certainly use fuller figured women. I personally think it brings back a feeling of old hollywood glamour (e.g. marilyn monroe) when this approach is used.
Hopefully one day soon we will have room for everything from Kate and Queen Latifah, and everyone in between. This is a good first step :-)
-- J
ablutophobic
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I think it's good that this has come out, and it's true that firming creams for models don't make much sense or seem like very persuasive ads haha. I also don't like that this is called "Real Women" though, or anytime models are called "not real" or other things like that, because tall and very thin people do exist naturally! I hear people saying things like "models' bodies are disgusting, so thin and gross," and it bugs me because I'm taller than the average model but pretty much just as thin! Lots of people think models are bad because they damage self-esteem, but after being the tall awkward girls all their lives (and my life!), models actually help them and me feel better because these girls look bloody good in the clothes and not awkward at all. What I'm saying is that all body types should be represented as to show everyone that they look good and have good bodies.
One point I think has yet to be made is that, as much as we revere models (the fashion/thin/beautiful/different/whatever kind) here at tFS, that is not the only beauty standard in the world or even in this country. There are those for whom the varied body types of the women in those ads are possibly more attractive than a lot of the models we love and obsess on.
Believe it or not, I know guys who can't stand looking at the mags I have around my house and who get mad at me for holding these models as ideals of beauty - the guys think they're "scary thin," "emaciated," "unattractive," "not sexy," etc. (We live in Orange County, land of the fake boobs/tan/blonde/fit bodies and they don't like that either.)
And like travolta said, Dove is a brand that knows its market. It's not supposed to be hoity toity or exclusive or ideal. It's for everywoman. And everywoman is supposedly represented in these ads. A lot of the women those ads are targeted at don't read Vogue or W and don't have the time or the money to spend hunting down fancy products. Plus, as America (and, let's face it, the world) gets bigger, the beauty market will have to grow with it. Not just by making people aspire to be thin but by making people feel beautiful (almost) as they are (with just a little fix here and there).
I personally think it's great to see women like these in mags (next to the rest of the lovely lithe girls) so that girls who will never have model bodies can feel the way ablutophobic feels when she sees tall thin girls looking beautiful (and shame on people for saying nasty things - I know how you feel ablutophobic!!). But remember what Dove's ultimate goal is. It's all about the bottom line - not yours, theirs.
Believe it or not, I know guys who can't stand looking at the mags I have around my house and who get mad at me for holding these models as ideals of beauty - the guys think they're "scary thin," "emaciated," "unattractive," "not sexy," etc. (We live in Orange County, land of the fake boobs/tan/blonde/fit bodies and they don't like that either.)
And like travolta said, Dove is a brand that knows its market. It's not supposed to be hoity toity or exclusive or ideal. It's for everywoman. And everywoman is supposedly represented in these ads. A lot of the women those ads are targeted at don't read Vogue or W and don't have the time or the money to spend hunting down fancy products. Plus, as America (and, let's face it, the world) gets bigger, the beauty market will have to grow with it. Not just by making people aspire to be thin but by making people feel beautiful (almost) as they are (with just a little fix here and there).
I personally think it's great to see women like these in mags (next to the rest of the lovely lithe girls) so that girls who will never have model bodies can feel the way ablutophobic feels when she sees tall thin girls looking beautiful (and shame on people for saying nasty things - I know how you feel ablutophobic!!). But remember what Dove's ultimate goal is. It's all about the bottom line - not yours, theirs.
OriginalSin
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wow stiletto. great post! u said everything i was thinking about saying, but couldnt find the right words! karma for u! 
We're not the only ones discussing it. Here's a good article on it from slate.com for anyone interested:
http://www.slate.com/id/2123659/
http://www.slate.com/id/2123659/
Stiletto, you make great points. You are very well-spoken
I personally HATE this ad campaign. I can't really even explain it in a rational way. I hate how they refer to these *real women*. So because I watch what I eat and work out to maintain a size 2 at the age of 34 I'm not a real woman? It seems like there are more and more comments out there about thin women not being *real women*, comments like - eat a sandwich or something. It just makes my mad.
Like I said, I can't rationally explain it, it just makes me mad. Just my humble opinion.
I personally HATE this ad campaign. I can't really even explain it in a rational way. I hate how they refer to these *real women*. So because I watch what I eat and work out to maintain a size 2 at the age of 34 I'm not a real woman? It seems like there are more and more comments out there about thin women not being *real women*, comments like - eat a sandwich or something. It just makes my mad.
Like I said, I can't rationally explain it, it just makes me mad. Just my humble opinion.
Thanks Shannon. 
I think it's an interesting point you make, too. It's been mentioned by some other people - that "real women" come in ALL shapes and sizes. That includes size 0 as much as it includes size 14. Short, tall, thin, round, curvy, straight, and so on.
I understand what you're saying. But I understand it in another way. I'm curvy but pretty thin (I can't believe I'm saying that, please someone go tell my boyfriend) and relatively fit. But because I'm also 30 years old, 5'8", and a size 6 (at least on the bottom - the top has always been a different story, *sigh*), I'm also sorta in the middle. Neither skinny/tiny/willowy nor round/heavy/thick/etc. I can see it from both sides because, believe it or not, I've been told I was too fat for some things and too skinny for others.
So I think the issue is that women on both sides are kind of being pitted against one another, in a sort of divide and conquer by the ad agencies and companies that make the products. And not only that, but by the women themselves!! I mean, it's not that tough to get a rivalry going among a group of women, right? So since there's already this heated battle of thin v. fat, why not stoke the fire a little? All those women who have felt excluded for years because they're larger than a 2 or a 4 or even a 6 are now included. Fine, yes. But to call them REAL, as if you don't get to be real anymore based on your size? Of course it pisses you off. Why is it a one or the other situation? And where does that leave everyone else?
It's like an inside nudge nudge wink wink joke at women who have never been and will never be a size 2, and who assume mean things about thin women (go eat a sandwich), just as other people assume mean things about them (go on a diet).
Sadly, it's never about celebrating beauty or women. It's always about one side v. the other. The skinnies v. the fatties. Or whatever horrible thing people want to say. So that all the years the thin women have been held as the paragons of perfect beauty, those other women didn't feel like "real" women. And now this ad holds them up as "real" women in place of thin women, not alongside them.
I like seeing these women in the magazines, like I said. But I also like seeing all the girls we love here at tFS. I know they are models for a reason, and I've always loved models for their otherworldliness, for their perfections and well as imperfections. But with things like this, mostly what I'd like is for people to not make horrible assumptions about individuals based on weight and for everyone to stop making it a size 0 OR size 14 world.
Maybe it's time to get off the soapbox now.
I think it's an interesting point you make, too. It's been mentioned by some other people - that "real women" come in ALL shapes and sizes. That includes size 0 as much as it includes size 14. Short, tall, thin, round, curvy, straight, and so on.
I understand what you're saying. But I understand it in another way. I'm curvy but pretty thin (I can't believe I'm saying that, please someone go tell my boyfriend) and relatively fit. But because I'm also 30 years old, 5'8", and a size 6 (at least on the bottom - the top has always been a different story, *sigh*), I'm also sorta in the middle. Neither skinny/tiny/willowy nor round/heavy/thick/etc. I can see it from both sides because, believe it or not, I've been told I was too fat for some things and too skinny for others.
So I think the issue is that women on both sides are kind of being pitted against one another, in a sort of divide and conquer by the ad agencies and companies that make the products. And not only that, but by the women themselves!! I mean, it's not that tough to get a rivalry going among a group of women, right? So since there's already this heated battle of thin v. fat, why not stoke the fire a little? All those women who have felt excluded for years because they're larger than a 2 or a 4 or even a 6 are now included. Fine, yes. But to call them REAL, as if you don't get to be real anymore based on your size? Of course it pisses you off. Why is it a one or the other situation? And where does that leave everyone else?
It's like an inside nudge nudge wink wink joke at women who have never been and will never be a size 2, and who assume mean things about thin women (go eat a sandwich), just as other people assume mean things about them (go on a diet).
Sadly, it's never about celebrating beauty or women. It's always about one side v. the other. The skinnies v. the fatties. Or whatever horrible thing people want to say. So that all the years the thin women have been held as the paragons of perfect beauty, those other women didn't feel like "real" women. And now this ad holds them up as "real" women in place of thin women, not alongside them.
I like seeing these women in the magazines, like I said. But I also like seeing all the girls we love here at tFS. I know they are models for a reason, and I've always loved models for their otherworldliness, for their perfections and well as imperfections. But with things like this, mostly what I'd like is for people to not make horrible assumptions about individuals based on weight and for everyone to stop making it a size 0 OR size 14 world.
Maybe it's time to get off the soapbox now.
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You're right, saying "real" is stupid. What they really mean to say is "average", but since getting called "average" isn't exactly empowering, I suppose they use "real" as a euphamism.ShannonMc said:Stiletto, you make great points. You are very well-spoken
I personally HATE this ad campaign. I can't really even explain it in a rational way. I hate how they refer to these *real women*. So because I watch what I eat and work out to maintain a size 2 at the age of 34 I'm not a real woman? It seems like there are more and more comments out there about thin women not being *real women*, comments like - eat a sandwich or something. It just makes my mad.
Like I said, I can't rationally explain it, it just makes me mad. Just my humble opinion.
