Raf Simons Leaving Christian Dior; Maria Chiuri Rumored In

[Marc10]

Apparently, Raf wasn't so pleased with having to deal with being imposed to work with Rihanna. Rihanna was an executive he had to deal with.

I don't think that's true at all, if anything Raf might had pushed for her to get the deal. He designed an outfit for her tour back in 2013 and she has worn a bunch of his menswear pieces. He also praised her style in an interview if i'm not mistaken.

Rihanna can basically pull off anything and she did with his Dior, she gave the clothes the attitude that it lacks when worn by J.Law etc.

 

[Wolkfolk]

Lola701 is right, at least that's what was said in Melle Agnés and Loic Prigent show "Habillées Pour...". They also said that he was not too happy either about Vuitton staging its cruise collection at the Hope estate in Palm Springs instead of Dior. Basically he and Nicolas wanted to show there but LVMH chose Vuitton.

 

[Creative]

So every campaign/runway show you've done is all about 12 year old blond pale girls with no attitude at all, like crystal dolls... And you produce a couple of videos with an explosive Rihanna (whom I adore , she's a diva). That didn't make sense at all. No coherence whatsoever. They were more Dior by Galliano that Dior by Raf.

 

[Lola701]

I don't think that's true at all, if anything Raf might had pushed for her to get the deal. He designed an outfit for her tour back in 2013 and she has worn a bunch of his menswear pieces. He also praised her style in an interview if i'm not mistaken.

Rihanna can basically pull off anything and she did with his Dior, she gave the clothes the attitude that it lacks when worn by J.Law etc.

Loic Prigent is a legit source so i trust him. Plus, there is a huge difference between liking someone and having that person representing his brand.
Leelee Sobieski was IMO the person who wore his clothes the way he wanted.
Rihanna is great and she has great style but she wore Dior her way...and not the way Raf had envisioned.

Rihanna was basically the face of a RTW campaign for the Prefall collection and the funny side of it was that the campaign wasn't in tunes with others Raf campaigns.

The campaign received such a warm response because it was like a throwback to what Dior used to be: sexy, seductive and fun.

 

[Benn98]

I wonder how much general public is influenced by runway collections in their beauty and fragrance buys. I think they are more influenced by celebrity ads and how the goods are presented. Dior executives clearly don't want to ruin their cash cow. What sells fashion doesn't necessarily sell cosmetics. They are two different demographics.

Even Karl doesn't have full control on Chanel's beauty. Their beauty director doesn't work on runway collections and they even hired Audrey Tautou as Chanel No5 ambassador even though Karl doesn't like her. Gucci is also mystery. Just saw the bamboo fragrance commercial and is was so Frida's Gucci. Really curious if Michele had any impact on cosmetics sales. Does anybody know?

I agree with Creative. The mood behind runway collections does play a part in these ads. Coherence worked well for most of the brands who went that route because the runway identity was so strong that it could be communicated through a dress/jacket from the collection in a beauty or fragrance ad, etc. Ultimately that's their selling point, something which tells the consumer they're buying Dior, not Maybelline. Chanel is really in a different league altogether. In the watch ads Monika wears a denim and cropped tweed jacket which is probably vintage, yet it wouldn't look out of place next to anything Karl does.
Just wondering what if the new designer's aesthetic is so far removed or difficult to apply to a best selling product? Did Raf design a dress for the updated J'adore ad under his reign? Doubt it. In a way I can understand why execs are drawing the line at the mainline campaign. I imagine these misc neclaces, lip paints and perfumes accounts for a sizeable chunk of the brand's revenue.

I also think that Gucci Bamboo ad (is it the one with Wonder Woman?) was conceived under Frida's tenure. There's a new fine jewellery ad in the latest UK Elle, and one could immediately spot Michele's quirky hipster style.

Re Raf & Rihanna, maybe the source had their wires crossed and it's Jennifer Lawrence instead of Rihanna. I'd be more inclined to believe that. Don't think he liked Jennifer very much, he always talked with such sneer about actors, and then there was that tense MET gala interview.

 

[Phuel]

Raf’s brief reign at Dior is such a non-existing period to me.

I’m so indifferent towards his design direction at this point in time, although I do think there were some really sharp pieces scattered throughout the collections— but that can be said about most designers when I see them in the shops, even the loathsome JW Anderson. But the overall aesthetic was so dead serious, and at the same time so joyless, so soulless, and as much as it was clearly high fashion, felt so strained and over-processed it never felt genuine to me— like who is the Raf Dior woman…? Definitely not that awfully, beyond-bland Jennifer Lawrence; and I could never see Natalie Portman in that brand of industrial design that is Raf’s signature; and Rihanna just looked so wrong in Dior: casting her felt so phoney and clueless of the Dior handlers that ultimately I think it’s an android that’s Raf’s ideal Dior woman. Stars and Raf’s brand of high fashion just don’t mix— and that’s something I do genuinely admire about him: He’s constantly never seemed to care for stars in high fashion. That’s definitely something I can support. But the overall mood of Raf’s stay at Dior just felt so typical of the time that defined high fashion: Tepid, soulless, directionless… just very cold and corporate. And very much as throwaway and bland as SM. God, do I loathe SM’s dire influence on high fashion and its breed of celebrities.

Dior’s greatest outside contributor was Gianfranco Ferre for me. His was a constantly glamorous, refined and still decadent, and graphically sharp woman that was very real, and without the theatrics— and never a girl. And those campaigns towards the end of the 1980s by Herb Ritts remain as impressive to me in 2016 as they must of been in 1988. Galliano’s version of Dior is the stuff of an impossibly fevered high, high high fashion dream that blurs reality with the surreal with so many strong, iconic faces and imageries that defined his era at Dior— as well as that period in high fashion: I think you’d have to be completely lacking in humour, fun and any sense of high fashion’s drama to not admire some aspects of it.

I think whoever’s up next only has Ferre and Galliano to live up to in terms of outside contribution in the creative sense. I have no idea how corporate the lines will be that this new designer will need to tow. Raf’s era can so easily be overlooked.

I just feel these huge labels aren’t contributing anything new to high fashion. It’s the smaller, free of corporate-control labels I’m turning to these SM-diseased days.

 

[Benn98]

....even the loathsome JW Anderson.

You loathe JW Anderson??? We're finished! Lol.

 

[squilliam]

They need to find someone like Ferré, chic and classic and timeless. Not too extreme/young/trendy and not too dull/simple/modern/matronly. Ferré was the best when it came to making great clothes and staying loyal to codes. They shouldn't bring back Galliano over extravagance or Raf simplicity or even Hedi teenage rock n roll, just classic luxurious elegance

 

[perhydrol]

The key of Ferré's success was that he wasn't limiting himself only to the archives, I mean he spent few days looking at the archival pieces and he never came back. Nowadays it's quite dangerous, isn't it?

 

[Creative]

Ferré was a success? It wasn't. His tenure was quite average if you are analyzing it in terms of 'success'. Good or bad, that's another thing.

I honestly thought his tenure, in general, was a bore. Amazing make up sometimes, amazing jewelery, nice constructed garments... But as a whole... I don't know.

 

[Lola701]

Ferre's Dior was OTT, very very opulent. Big coats, big bows, bold colors combinations, big hats.
It was in tunes with the image people had of Dior.
It wasn't a big commercial success but it was warmly received and pretty constent over the years. They already made some questionable choices back then (Emmanuelle Beart).

It was that moment of time when Italian fashion ruled the world. The creativity and the commercial success came from Italy. In the late 80's, nothing screamed "old fashioned" more than the old guard of Couture: Torrente, Cardin, Saint Laurent, Nina Ricci, Ungaro...etc. Even a young Christian Lacroix was already old in a way. Karl was maybe the only one in Couture (with Versace later) who did something relevant in terms of fashion.

I think that Ferre wasn't helped with context. 80's and 90's fashion were so much about RTW and not so much about luxury. And Dior was so much about a certain idea of luxury and tradition. It did appeal to a exclusive clientele but not so much to the mass.
Dior really hit the mark with Galliano when he renewed his contract in 1999/2000 because for the first time in a long time, Dior proposed something relatable to everybody without compromising the creativity.

As for a new designer, they can stay like that for at least one year. People will not pay attention to it if it's not very publicized. They can continue to hold events, doing collections and then do a lot more ads with their various celebrities.
Dior is a bankable name anyway...

 

[Phuel]

^^^ The circus will always attract more people than the opera LOL

I thought Ferre was successfully artistically and knew how to maneuver within the context of the label and the times he designed for, without giving into distracting gimmicks— and that includes not giving into theatricalities of the time. I don’t think he ever presented showpieces or editorial-bait: His fashions were designed to be worn by women and not designed just to push cosmetics and bags. And, they were also unmistakably, and unabashedly on a heightened level of design.

My BFF's mum wore Ferre’s Dior, as well as Ferre in the 90s, and my friend would sometimes wear her mum’s Dior/ Ferre— but style it her way; so I think Ferre’s designs were as versatile for reality as they may have been OTT in branding. I get we’re not living in the same times anymore, but In that sense, Alber’s designs remind me very much of Ferre’s. That brand of refined, even OTT chic that can be translated for a girl as well as an older woman still has its place in these days’ fast high fashion attitude that seems to favor attracting Instagirls with their $1000 tee than dressing women thoughtfully.

You loathe JW Anderson??? We're finished! Lol.

 

[ultramarine]

Raf’s brief reign at Dior is such a non-existing period to me.

(...) and Rihanna just looked so wrong in Dior: casting her felt so phoney and clueless of the Dior handlers that ultimately I think it’s an android that’s Raf’s ideal Dior woman. Stars and Raf’s brand of high fashion just don’t mix— and that’s something I do genuinely admire about him: He’s constantly never seemed to care for stars in high fashion. That’s definitely something I can support. But the overall mood of Raf’s stay at Dior just felt so typical of the time that defined high fashion: Tepid, soulless, directionless… just very cold and corporate. And very much as throwaway and bland as SM.

Pardon, but Raf's final collection for Sander was very VEEERY femenine and emotional, and we all know he did it as an audition for the Dior gig, once there, yes, there were more straight lines, but he never stopped being ultra-femenine, which is the core of the Dior code, which he VERY well respected.

Now, about him leaving, he said its the pressure of churning so many collections in so little time, so why not thing outside the box?

Dior has money, why dont they hire two designers: one for HC and one for RTW? I know Im quite biased but Lacroix for Dior HC would be a dream, and having a bright young thing for RTW would expand the Dior empire and appeal to a larger market (like Hedi for SLP).

I sense the suits are done experimenting, they have the pressure to find the right fit. Or bring Margiela out of retirement ...

 

[miguelalmeida]

Thank God Saunders is headed to DvF!

I want Francisco Costa at Dior!

 

[Fashionstuff]

Thank God Saunders is headed to DvF!

I want Francisco Costa at Dior!

It is a time to hire creative director.
In June or in July Raf can go to CK , in case it's true and not only rumors. So, Dior and - Donatella's Versus ,ok,it's not so important such Dior-are till now without new creative director.

 

[Fashionstuff]

Ferre's Dior was OTT, very very opulent. Big coats, big bows, bold colors combinations, big hats.
It was in tunes with the image people had of Dior.
It wasn't a big commercial success but it was warmly received and pretty constent over the years. They already made some questionable choices back then (Emmanuelle Beart).

It was that moment of time when Italian fashion ruled the world. The creativity and the commercial success came from Italy. In the late 80's, nothing screamed "old fashioned" more than the old guard of Couture: Torrente, Cardin, Saint Laurent, Nina Ricci, Ungaro...etc. Even a young Christian Lacroix was already old in a way. Karl was maybe the only one in Couture (with Versace later) who did something relevant in terms of fashion.

I think that Ferre wasn't helped with context. 80's and 90's fashion were so much about RTW and not so much about luxury. And Dior was so much about a certain idea of luxury and tradition. It did appeal to a exclusive clientele but not so much to the mass.
Dior really hit the mark with Galliano when he renewed his contract in 1999/2000 because for the first time in a long time, Dior proposed something relatable to everybody without compromising the creativity.

As for a new designer, they can stay like that for at least one year. People will not pay attention to it if it's not very publicized. They can continue to hold events, doing collections and then do a lot more ads with their various celebrities.
Dior is a bankable name anyway...

Right.. but in that time italian RTW was very luxurious.

 

[Phuel]

Pardon, but Raf's final collection for Sander was very VEEERY femenine and emotional, and we all know he did it as an audition for the Dior gig, once there, yes, there were more straight lines, but he never stopped being ultra-femenine, which is the core of the Dior code, which he VERY well respected.

Now, about him leaving, he said its the pressure of churning so many collections in so little time, so why not thing outside the box?

Dior has money, why dont they hire two designers: one for HC and one for RTW? I know Im quite biased but Lacroix for Dior HC would be a dream, and having a bright young thing for RTW would expand the Dior empire and appeal to a larger market (like Hedi for SLP).

I sense the suits are done experimenting, they have the pressure to find the right fit. Or bring Margiela out of retirement ...

Raf’s farewell collection for Jil was predictably ultra, modernist-feminine, and clearly his CV for Dior. I just thought it was a tad too drag— as in Raf-doing-ladylike-to-impress-the-Dior-handlers. I just never bought that it was really who he was. I mean, it was definitely nice. I just don’t think Raf has anything to contribute in the classic, ladylike-type of high fashion: Ferre took Dior to that opulent, decadent but still well-mannered and proper place that his rich clientele would relate to. And Galliano took it around the world, to another place and time, and all with epic, unleashed attitude that defined a high fashionquake. Raf’s Dior just felt unfinished and directionless to me, despite his clearly post-modernist constructions. It just never took Dior anywhere for me.

I have nothing against Raf’s brand of design. And in the context of lessers like JW Anderson, HBA etc, I’m reminded I can definitely appreciate him so much more. It’s like some dismissing Celine’s Prefall offering as very JW…. Phoebe’s got more going on just in terms of a complete wardrobe in those handful of looks than any main collection of JW. She may not be clearly ahead of the pack at this point, but she’s still leagues ahead in terms of vision next to someone like JW. That’s how I feel about Raf when compared to lessers, as well.

You mean two famous designers sharing the spotlight designing for a fabled House…? Not sure if serious... That brand of a beautiful disaster waiting to happen would make for a great treatment to a film LOL

Lacroix’s vision was sugary, fashion wonderland-wonderful. But his time has passed, no way would the handlers care for him at this point in fashion.

 

[ultramarine]

You mean two famous designers sharing the spotlight designing for a fabled House…? Not sure if serious... That brand of a beautiful disaster waiting to happen would make for a great treatment to a film LOL

Lacroix’s vision was sugary, fashion wonderland-wonderful. But his time has passed, no way would the handlers care for him at this point in fashion.

No, I mean one famous, one unknown ... and yes I *am* serious ... the way they are doing it with one Creative Director for all is clearly NOT working.. too much pressure, too much work ...

I know, he was there among the greats ... I just miss his visions or escapism and color, above all ...

 

[maxlinden]

^I don't think work load was too much pressure, I bet the execs had much to do with it. I wonder if no one wants the job rather than them finding the right fit. Maybe the designers they've sought out(which we will never hear about) turned it down, maybe they know the T. It's a shame some topics can't be discussed on this site because....

 

[reese06]

I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for two creative directors if done correctly. I mean when Alexander McQueen was alive, it seemed as though Sarah Button was designing the prefall and cruise collections.

However, I think finding that natural flow and dynamic would be difficult. One person would definitely have to be able to take the back seat and well.. These are creative people we're talking about. Lots of egos at that level